Your Own Personal Jesus

April 5, 2010 § 31 Comments

It’s Easter, the “most holy day on the Christian calendar” as some would put it. It’s the day that Jesus (the son of God, and the human incarnation of god himself on Earth) died for the sins of man, only to be resurrected on Sunday to rise to Heaven so that we can all be saved from damnation in Hell and have an everlasting “afterlife” at the right-hand of Jesus and God. Makes perfect sense right?

The Resurrection; El GRECO; 1596-1610; oil on canvas, altarpiece, College of Dona Maria; Toledo, Spain

The Resurrection; El GRECO; 1596-1610; oil on canvas, altarpiece, College of Dona Maria; Toledo, Spain.

Again, religion is a soft target for me to criticise, as there are so many holes in the stories that the ridicule of religious beliefs is all too easy. I’m hoping to include my voice to the many other more-educated, better-learned scholars and theological debaters, and add something constructive to the debate.

With that in mind, I’m going to delve into the idea of The Resurrection a little farther, and try to surmise what exactly is the driving force behind this belief, and also what are the assumptions made for this belief to be maintained, and what are the underlying consequences of this belief.

Sins Of Man
Firstly, for this to be true, we must assume that humanity is evil, that our presence on earth is somehow and abomination, an unnatural occurence. “Catholic Guilt” would have us believe that our thoughts and actions in life are crimes, and that we must feel guilty for doing the things that come naturally to us, with special focus on sex.

It goes like this; Sex is evil, and is only for the propagation of the species, in wedlock, under the eyes of God, with his blessing. If you have sex, you must intend to have children from this union. Sex is a necessary evil in the eyes of God, and he only allows it on His terms. Everything else is SIN, including thoughts about sex and carnal lust.

The idea of SIN is a way of controlling people. But Sex is an especially difficult thing to control, for not only is it necessary, but it’s deeply ingrained in out psyches and our DNA, by heredity and human instinct, but it is actually the driving force behind a great deal of human evolution and advancements. By making human procreation something to feel guilty about, religions can control, to some degree, the behaviours of the believers.

Other SINS run are equally as serious, but none of them carry the weight that the “Sins of the Flesh” carry. I won’t mention the irony of this situation given the current state of the Catholic Church and sex/rape scandals.

On the other hand, people DO act questionably for the sake of sex, but I think we’ve grown up enough now to accept responsibility for our own actions, don’t you?

Heaven
In Christian theological beliefs it is accepted that if we pray and obey God’s laws, that we will be reunited with our loved-one in Heaven to live a peaceful existence alongside God and Jesus for all eternity in bliss, no pain, no suffering, no disease, no need for any earthly pleasures.

I have a few problems with this notion.

The idea that this life is the prequel for “a real purpose” devalues the lives we lead on earth, and the consequences of this cause a myriad problems for our societies. One can go to war in the name of their God, with a “knowledge” that if they kill and die for said deity, that they will be saved. It means that those on Earth who are “looking forward to heaven” can knowingly dismiss duties in this world, such as the environment or problems caused by famine and drought. It means that people can treat LIFE as a “dry run” before the real show, up in the sky. It means that by blindly following the words of the holy books, regardless of other consequences this may cause, that they at least will have a blissful existence hereafter.

By claiming “afterlife” one mitigates responsibilities for the real world. And in some cases, like extreme fundamentalism in Christianity and Islam, people are pushing for Armageddon, for the final war, so that they can go to this paradise.

BLAKE, William (b. 1757, London, d. 1827, London) The Lovers' Whirlwind, Francesca da Rimini and Paolo Malatesta

BLAKE, William (b. 1757, London, d. 1827, London) The Lovers' Whirlwind, Francesca da Rimini and Paolo Malatesta

Hell
The idea that if we’re good as humans, and follow the edicts of religious faith, praise a God who apparently looks after us, and give over our will and lives to an unseen creator is odd enough. But to back it up, and to make the idea all the more appealing, someone came up with an alternate afterlife scenario, one of eternal punishment and torture.

So if you’re good you get all the things you wanted on earth, if you’re bad you go to a “place” of eternal punishment. Again, this is simply a tactic to control the people. But how long will the idea of Hell continue to be used as a deterrent? The Vatican recently admitted that “Limbo” (the middle ground between Heaven and Hell, where un-Christened babies go) doesn’t exist, so how long before, due to public demand, they dismiss the idea of Hell?

The Afterlife
These ideas of “Afterlife” stem from one thing in life, the very natural fear we have of death. Put simply, all animals fear death, though none so intellectually as mankind. “Fear of death” is very closely linked to self preservation, which is linked to the pain reflex. We have pain to stop us from damaging our bodies, and pain can be seen as a small step toward death. Death is the ultimate unknown, for we can’t see beyond death what happens to the human mind and psyche after the batteries run out.

So the idea of afterlife was invented to “give people purpose” to their lives? Well yes and no. Originally the afterlife was an answer to the question of “What happens after we die?” But people over time identified it as a good motivating factor to keep people in line. This is how religion uses it. If you have enough people believing in an afterlife, but only if they follow your rules, you effectively have an army. You know the rest.

The Easter Spirit
So if you’re good and follow the laws of God, you go to heaven. We know this because Jesus, the son of God (and God himself made corporeal on earth) died and rose from the grave on Easter Sunday (an arbitrary date based on cycles of the moon, originally a spring rejuvenation festival), to save us from sin, and give us everlasting life in Heaven Eternal. If we don’t follow the rules, we go to Hell. Seems simple enough right? Does the Easter Bunny believe in Hell?

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§ 31 Responses to Your Own Personal Jesus

  • internet elias says:

    An Atheist expounding on Bible truths is like an infant expounding on quantum pysics. :smile:. He can’t understand it…and he surely can’t explain it.

    1co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Carolyn

    • The bible explaining the bible is self-justification. What about the world around us? What about empirical data? What about observation? Do you believe every word of the bible as truth? Or do you only believe the nice bits?

    • SkepDad says:

      “All your losses will be made up to you in the resurrection, provided you continue faithful. By the vision of the Almighty I have seen it.”
      Joseph Smith, Jr

      Words in a text mean nothing. No doubt you, Carolyn, look at the LDS church as a travesty, having been invented by a single man from scratch. Even their sacred texts have been totally debunked, being as they were “translated” from Egyptian heiroglyphs which at the time were untranslatable, but since have been and bear no resemblance to Smith’s work of fiction.

      Yet Mormons still believe, after their prophet has been comprehensively exposed as a scam artist. They aren’t bad people, they’re victims of a scam, and victims of indoctrination by their families and those they trust.

      Your own particular faith, statistically almost guaranteed to be the faith of your parents, is viewed no less critically by the majority of humans who haven’t been indoctrinated in it. Humans have believed in all manner of gods, texts and moralities over time, and it’s obvious that they are just a combination of wishful thinking and the need to attach explanations to the unknown.

      Believe what you want to believe, but for those of us outside the haze of indoctrination, we can see faith for what it is – just santa for grownups.

    • Rick Lannoye says:

      This post makes some excellent points, but I’d like to direct Internet elias to consider that Jesus, himself, opposed any notion that God could or would hurt anyone!

      I’ve actually written an entire book on this topic–Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There’s No Such Place As Hell, (for anyone interested, you can get a free ecopy of Did Jesus Believe in Hell?, one of the most compelling chapters in my book at http://www.thereisnohell.com), but if I may, let me share one of the many points I make in it to explain why.

      If one is willing to look, there’s substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell. For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: “You don’t know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!” Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.

      So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn BILLIONS of people for an ETERNITY!

      True, there are a few statements that made their way into the copies of copies of copies of the gospel texts which place “Hell” on Jesus’ lips, but these adulterations came along many decades after his death, most likely due to the Church filling up with Greeks who imported their belief in Hades with them when they converted.

      Bear in mind that the historical Protestant doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures applies only to the original autographs, not the copies. But sadly, the interpolations that made their way into those copies have provided a convenient excuse for a lot of people to get around following Jesus’ real message.

  • raytheist says:

    An atheist expounding on the Bible is able to provide an objective perspective without the blinders of religion to get in the way. And most of the active atheists I know are more well-versed in the Bible than the average Christian, because many of us have been on both sides and actually studying the Bible is what convinced many of us that it can’t be true.

    I, for example, was not only a “born-again, spirit-baptized, tongue-talking” Christian, I was a Pentecostal minister.

    • Maria says:

      Well, something went terribly wrong there. Didn’t it?
      So who dissapointed you? God or the Church?

  • I don’t understand why people can’t see how the bible is such an obvious tool of control. Some of the things in it seem to have an obvious moral value to society… Other things seem to have had some relevance but have since been somehow negated (like food consumption, as a quick example)… And SOME of it is so ridiculously bizarre you don’t know where to even start.

    Great post. 🙂

  • Lori says:

    Excellent post!

    I find it interesting as well that Catholics and Fundamentalists focus so much on sex. How is it that these people think it is okay to dictate what people do in their bedrooms? Why don’t they use some of their energy and focus on ways to help the homeless, feed the poor, help the community etc…. Religion seems to have lost its compassion!

  • Maria says:

    O.k. so I understand what you are saying. And I am the kind of person that likes logical answers and questions. So Starting there the main thing I have to say (and without the intention of offending anyone) is that I’ve observed that athists for the most part hate religion and religious looneys. Which I understand why. There are some people that in the name of christinaity do some looney things to say the least BUT if you look deeper you will see that your problem with God is not really with him but with the people that say they “know him” or “follow him”.
    I am pretty sure that if each one of you decided to really challenge God and ask him to show himself to you, you would be in love with him. Because He like you hates Religion and Religious judgemental people.
    And he can answer every single and complicated question you have about him. So give it a try and if after all God doesn’t exist then nothing will happen. But you will be amazed how he will show up and answer your questions in the most amazing and clever ways. Up for the challenge?
    If you really are an atheist there is nothing to fear. Let’s start the “Talk to God” challenge this month and blog about the answers/non-answers.

  • Maria says:

    Oh! by the way. God doesn’t have any issues with sex. Catholics do, but that’s a different story. The Bible has a whole book that talks about enjoying sex.

  • TheSecularist says:

    It’s not that I hate religion. It’s that I’m ambivalent.

    If you substitute “dirt clod” for God above, then you’ll get a better idea of how we feel about god.

    “Let’s start the “Talk to the dirt clod” challenge this month, and blog about the answers/non-answers.”

    P.S. – plenty of folks taking to god about those four miners. Not looking very good. What will it mean if they’ve died?

  • Ok Maria,
    Dear God, why are you such a bastard?? (No I’m not trying to be hateful I genuinely want to know) How can a “God” who loves us allow so many of us die in wars and terrorist acts…considering so many of these things are caused by differing religious beliefs? Why hide in your heaven when you could stop all the suffering by just appearing, and I don’t mean in a mishapen bagel or a piece of mouldy cheese?

  • ….Oh maria I think you will find that if “God” could answer me it would be to say it’s because he doesn’t exist, never has done. Please don’t waste your presious life waiting for you rewards in the next one.

  • Maria says:

    O.k. so I guess this means that you guys would maybe consider God’s existence if he always fixed everything that is bad for us. Basically if he acted more like superman, or a baby sitter.

    There’s definitely a lot of anger on those comments and it seems like its anger caused by disappointment in life, out of hurt feelings. And in your “logical” thinking it seems only right that IF God did what you think he should do, then he would be God.
    Isn’t that illogical? Then he wouldn’t be God. He wuld be your servant.

    So if he thought or saw the world like we do. He would be another super hero looking for vengeance. Even worst, what kind of God would he be if he did everything we told him to. Wouldn’t he be like a Genie of the lamp?

    So basically there could be a God if he agreed with every one of our actions and thoughts.

    Doesn’t this sound more like a power struggle of a little kid and his dad? That when the parent does or says something the kid doesn’t agree with, the kid yells “After all you are not my dad” or ” I hate you, I hate you” because the kid didn’t get what he thought deserved or what he wanted.

    So it is not so much that there couldn’t be an almighty God, but this is more about the longing for a “a La,la,la Land” world where everything is nice. Or that it is better to think there is no God so I can be my own God.
    Frankly

    If God had to give each one of us what we deserve, we would be in a very very bad place right now, as we all fail many many times. So the fact that he allows you to exist and rant against him and even insult him shows you his patience and mercy. He is patient but he is still God. And yes he is just and will do justice in his own perfect time.

    Frankly I think that many of you are afraid to honestly ask God to show up because you really don’t want to find out if there is a God. That would mean you are accountable to someone bigger than you. That would mean that someone else is in control other than you.

    And since he is God and he knows your heart, he knows if you really are looking for an answer or if you are just looking to be right. God cannot be fooled so if you honestly ask him to show you if he exists he will show you. But be sincere even if you are questioning him be sincere, even if you have complaints, be sincere when you talk to him. And he will surely show up. But be open.

  • Maria says:

    Oh! and My reward is not only in heaven but in earth too. I have the reward of resting in peace every day knowing that God is in control. I have the reward of having true joy in the midst of difficulty. I have the reward of knowing I am never alone and mainly I enjoy the awesome gift of being loved by an almighty God who sees how imperfect I am and loves me exactly as I am.

    When you ask about what would happen to those people who are praying for God’s help while those miners are still missing, if they are dead…

    My answer is that there are many things that we expect God to do and that yes, he is fully capable of doing but the existence of God doesn’t deny the reality of living in a fallen world. So as much as we see many amazing miracles we also see many “inexplicable” pain. But the truth is that because you and I and every living person has their faults and because many times we act only thinking about our own good we cause suffering to each other and if God was to intervene every time (which he could) we did something wrong, we would be his little robots and not his children.

    He is our father who allows us to live our lives and does not control us with a remote control. If we listen to him he will surely guide us and help us. And that shows how amazing he is, that he does respect us and having the power to destroy us in a second, he allows the sun to shine again even when he sees the horrible things we as humans do to each other. The fact that we sometimes act as idiots and inflict pain to others is not his fault.

    Guys, I really hope you put all your walls aside and for once be truly open to this idea. Not to religion or religious people but to the fact that God does exist, he will show up if you ask him to. And you don’t have to telll me about it or blogg about it. Just experience it. It is awesome!

  • Maria, I don’t hate god – I deny the probability of his existance (and please don’t latch on to the word probability rather than possibility, I’m not as arrogant as to say I KNOW about life, the universe and everything)
    In answer to the whole father and kiddy throwing a tantrum thing just let me say this. I am a mother and would die for my children. Yes, sometimes I have pissed them off big style if I haven’t allowed them to have sweets and made them eat their veg, or made them come in when they want to go play with their friends. They have at times cried and said that they hate me and told me I’m mean….slight difference between that making them suffer hunger, poverty, torture, death…all just to honour my name!!
    I am not bitter, I am not disappointed, I love life.

    • Maria says:

      Hi Karin,
      The thing is that God doesn’t make us suffer hunger, poverty, death and torture. We do it to ourselves.

      If your kids decided to become drug addicts when they grow up is it your fault? Why don’t you make them stop? Because they are grown ups and they have their own wills. So as good of a mother as you are they will do what they choose to and that will not be your fault.

      There is hunger, torture, poverty and horrible stuff becaue we as humans have taken all the beauty that God created and decided to destroy it. Be it with Religion, extremism, egoism, greed and self seeking. He created a beautiful and perfect world and left us as administrators and throughout teh centuries we have made a horrible job.

      Anyway, nice talking to you. I will pray that God shows himself to you through your kids and the love you have for them. That is how I understand him more. By being a mom and watching my kid grow.

      Take care.

  • TheSecularist says:

    Maria, I never see evidence of god fixing *anything.* I see a universe full of shit happening, sometimes for no apparent reason. The guilty get rewarded. The innocent are punished. The good get sick and die. The evil die peacefully at home in their old age.

    Children in Haiti have lost homes and parents. They are blameless, and yet suffer. Prats in the 1st world misbehave, and obtain the full blessings of life.

    There is no justice. If god cannot at least show some modicum of justice in this life, how are we to even believe he’s up to the task of bestowing justice in the next?

    Based on observation, the best one can say about god is that he’s ambivalent toward the fate of his creations. That’s no point in his favor. FFS, the entire universe is ambivalent to our fate.

    I simply don’t need to anthropomorphize the universe to feel better about my powerlessness in controling every strand of my life; nor do I need to seek agency in random happenstance to weave a coherent narrative of my life.

    • Maria says:

      Dear Secularist,
      Yes, I understand that seeing all the injustice in the world makes us grow weary. BUT as far as evidence there is plenty of evidence… I have personally lived it.

      My son had Autism (and there is no cure for it only improvement) and we prayed to God to help us and that same night after the prayer my son started interacting with us, from being completely gone and staring at a wall he started making eye contact, playing with us and enjoying life again.. I saw the power of God in our lives.

      My cousin was born with a very rare skin/birth defect and all doctors said it was incurable, they told us that she would not live past 3 and that if she did she would not be able to lead a normal life… We prayed, God did his work and she is a beautiful young lady who recently graduated with a Masters Degree from the University of Miami. Ironically she graduated from the same University of the doctors who diagnosed her.

      I think that the main complaint I hear is why this world isn’t perfect and just and balanced. And the answer is: Because this is not heaven yet.

      But the fact that we all long for justice, really shows us that we were made for heaven, that deep in our souls we long for being in heaven. A place where there is justice, perfection, beauty, true joy and happiness. And we will get it in heaven. As much as there is an earth, there is a heaven and there is a hell.

      The best thing about God is that he never lied about earth when he said:
      “… In this world you will have trouble. But take heart I have overcome the world”
      (John 16:33)

    • Maria says:

      As far as the injustice we see in the world… there are promises about that…

      There is a time for everything and a day where we will see God’s justice. It might not be in our time but it will be in his perfect time.

      “…will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night?… I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However when the son of man comes, will he find faith on earth? ” (Luke 18:7-8)

      “It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them.” (Deuteronomy 32:35)

      Anyway, if you thrirst and hunger for justice…

      “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. ” (Matthew 5:5)

  • dmabus says:

    ****************
    DEATH TRAP

    http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/
    ********

    THE REAL QUESTION:

    DOES ATHEISM HAVE A FUTURE?

    AND THE ANSWER – NO!

    http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?280780-the-Death-of-Ath*ism&p=3089433#post3089433

  • TheSecularist says:

    @Maria;

    Not to be insensitive – I’m truly happy for your family’s good fortune.

    But I would ask why your family deserves your healing more than other families who do not receive god’s grace.

    To be honest, I’m less bothered by the justice denied than the injustice inflicted.

    As I understand morality and ethics, it’s imperative that one be impartial in one’s dealings with others – showing no favoritism.

    If god is truly present, he’s not very ethical, bestowing healing on some and withholding it from others who are just as deserving.

    • Maria says:

      Well, neither my family nor any other family really deserves God’s grace. And that is why it is grace because it is free and undeserved. Healing is available for anyone who asks with faith believing that God according to his plans will do it.

      I think you are going back to my original point. What you want to see in Earth is Heaven. So once again you are longing for Heaven without really knowing.

      It looks like you do acknowledge the existence of God. Only that you don’t approve of the way he chooses to do things. So I sincerely believe that you should try to bring up all your questions and complaints to God and if you are truly sincere you will see that he will answer. God is not out there to destroy us or make us suffer he is here to love us and help us on our way to heaven.

      There is a God shaped hole in all of us. And only he can fill it.
      When things get really, really tough where do you go? When things are completely out of your hands what do you do? I cry out to Jesus and he has always helped me.

      It’s not so much about trying to understand him, it is about allowing him to love you and with his love we are able to make a difference in this world, we are able to be the hand of God for anyone who is suffering.

      That is why I didn’t spend any time trying to theologically explain God during these conversations. I could, but it is fruitless. I know that we can only know he exists by experiencing him. So open your heart and after all if he doesn’t exist, you have nothing to lose.

      Theology, religion or logic did not give me the gift of true peace and joy. Experiencing God’s love has.

      I think that is the problem with the world today we get tangled up with religious rules that are meaningless to us and God.
      What matters is to love him and be loved by him.
      (Now, I am Bible reading Christian and I have my theology right BUT it’s only his love that saved me)

    • Hi Maria, thank you for your comments.

      It’s weird, because you keep saying that we need God, we strive for God, strive for heaven, but tell me, it you are striving all these things, have you not given up a part of your life on earth, or a hope for better things here? You talk as though only God can give peace, right? If you are at so much peace, why do you find it so important to tell others about it? Your arguments are un-compelling because they are so subjective as to be useless to anyone except yourself.

      I really don’t se you bringing anything new to the table here, no disrespect intended.

    • Maria says:

      Hi Martin, Thanks for the reply.
      Let me answer each question separately (it will be a little long)

      Q1. If you are striving all these things, have you not given up a part of your life on earth, or a hope for better things here?
      A1. No, I have not given up a part of my life or my hope for better things here. Knowing Christ has given me a better perspective on life in this earth and freed me from the minutia of life. I have not given up hope. It actually gave me true hope of better things here and in heaven. I live a happier and more intentional life. I value everyday I’m given in this earth.

      ** Since we are on the subject, I have a question for you… What makes you think or conclude that believing in God (in my case specifically in Christ) makes you give up on life and hope? And in this case please let’s not discuss other religions but let’s stick specifically with Christianity. (Because I am not making the case for other religions really)

      Q2.You talk as though only God can give peace, right? If you are at so much peace, why do you find it so important to tell others about it?

      A2. Because if I found something so great why wouldn’t I want to share it. The peace that you find in Christ it is not the kind of peace that this world can give you. And the only way to know this is by having had experienced it.
      So yes, you might say this statement is highly subjective but personal experiences give proof of many things and many times they cannot be objective.

  • TheSecularist says:

    Maria,

    Your suggestion is that I open myself to subjective feelings of God’s goodness. I’ve been there.

    The point I was trying to make is that when I objectively view the evidence, there’s no evidence of anything other than random occurrence. There is no god here.

    Strange as it may seem, I have no hole to fill, I am not afraid of a universe in which we are alone, and when my father died I viewed it as a natural part of life.

    • Maria says:

      Well, what else can I tell you. I am living proof that God exists. And obviously it would take too long to explain.
      And it would be a “subjective” opinion to you.

      But what I can say is that it doesn’t make sense to me, to see the beauty in nature, and the perfection in the universe and actually believe it’s random occurrence. Please read my reply to Martin on Answer #4.

      But, seriously Dear Secularist, when you see the beautiful colors of a tropical fish, do you really think that that fish looks so amazingly beautiful just by chance? Or could there be a creator that designed it to look that way?

      Anyway, I respectfully disagree.

      Love. Maria.

  • Maria says:

    3. Your arguments are un-compelling because they are so subjective as to be useless to anyone except yourself.

    A3. Let me ask… In a jury trial, what has more weight to solve a case and reach a verdict? The various theories the defense and trial lawyers come up with to explain the innocence or culpability of the criminal or the statement of an actual witness?

    In very simple terms it’s a little like this… If there is a witness and he testifies about what he saw/experienced, and gives an statement of the facts, it would be quite funny if the judge concluded… well that is what you saw so it is your personal version and opinion about the actions of the person in question, this is only your subjective opinion but in reality that only serves as testimony to you personally because we are not sure if you really witnessed any crime since we where not there to see it with you. After all we don’t really believe in crimes so what you saw is really irrelevant. I don’t really think a crime was committed.

    Now you might agree with this but highlight the fact that the witness physically saw or heard what happened. Do you think it would be logical to dismiss his account of the facts only because the judge, jury and lawyers were not at the scene when this happened?

  • Maria says:

    Last Answer…

    4. I really don’t see you bringing anything new to the table here, no disrespect intended.
    A4. True. When we talk about God there is nothing new to bring to the table other than the facts that give evidence of his existence for centuries and centuries. God remains the same so what new could we say about him?

    Which atheist has come back from the death to assure you that there is nothing else? It sounds like a ridiculous question but it is true.

    I think the one who is truly subjective is you (no disrespect intended). You can not prove to me through observation that God doesn’t exist. You have no proof to show me that there is no God. Only your opinions of why you think there is no God but no physical evidence.

    On the other hand I have thousands of people that could line up to tell you they were healed, changed, rescued, etc. And people who can actually show you evidence like my son who was autistic and in one night started playing and talking to us. Who did this? The universe? My positive thinking? Seriously?

    My cousin’s picture of when she was born and her early years, a clear picture of someone with a visible and serious skin condition. No treatment available, no cure exists and no surgery possible. No initial hope of survival or hope of a normal life given by the doctors. And the picture of her today alive, happy and literally beautiful. She seriously looks like a Barbie. Is this subjective too? Or is it the power of God in action?

    How about my friend who had only half of an ovary and was also diagnosed with lupus. The doctors told her she would NEVER have kids. Because even if by miracle she ended up pregnant with only ½ an ovary she would not live to deliver, and if she lived through the pregnancy she or her child would die at delivery… Can you guess… they are both well and alive. Every day I see that kid I see God present in my life. Are these 2 lives subjective too?

    I could go on with many, many true stories about how God moves and is present in our lives. But I don’t think there’ll be enough space.

    Finally, even if this stories where irrelevant to you. One thing is true, if you observe how amazing the universe is. If you just look at the little details of a butterfly, an ant, a parrot, etc. Do you really think it is logical to think that all this perfection just happened by chance?

    Since you are in graphics and arts… How long does it take for a fine artist to create a work of art? To make a painting of a landscape or a flower, an animal?

    Artists take days and days to paint just one picture of what we see in nature and we admire it, and when we see how close his interpretation is to real life we admire his talent even more. Isn’t God and artist, who made even all tiny bugs as detailed as they are?

    Just look at yourself in the mirror and tell me, is it logical to think that you look the way you look simply by chance.

    Look at anything that is beautiful in nature and ask yourself could this just come out of nothing. Now that is not logical.

  • TheSecularist says:

    “But, seriously Dear Secularist, when you see the beautiful colors of a tropical fish, do you really think that that fish looks so amazingly beautiful just by chance? Or could there be a creator that designed it to look that way?”

    The fish has been shaped by natural selection.

    Three last comments, and I’m out:

    1) When told that I just need to believe, and all things will be revealed, I think of those old spiritualists who talked to the dead.

    2) An analogy: When you think “God creatled this beautiful fish,” try this: “Zeus created this beautiful fish.” Does that ring true? Does it feel hollow? Empty? False? That’s how we disbelievers feel when we hear about the wonderful works God is responsible for.

    3) There may be some people who are predisposed to belief; and some who are not. I don’t know if it’s psychological, or genetic, or what. But there seems to be some evidence to support that. Anyway, I clearly am not predisposed to belief in anything outside this material world.

    And now, I’m out.

    Peace.

    P.S. – what is one to think when one sees an ugly ‘possum?

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